The Last DW book I read -- Witches Abroad

When I was advised of the Discworld by a friend, Wyrd Sisters was the latest, but, according to habit, I started out with TCOM, got hooked, and in no time bought and read them all. No translations, either.
In those early days, Wyrd Sisters was my favourite.
Then came WA. Although I immensely enjoyed the humour, there were some aspects to the story, that rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't put my finger on what exactly it was I misliked. Other books came along, some I liked immediately through and through, some less so, but I developed the habit of reading all the books again from TCOM up to the last one.
And I found my reservations towards WA disappearing.
And it became my favourite for some time, conjoined with Wyrd Sisters.
I think it's because of Nanny Ogg.
Witchcraft is about people, normally. And on that level, Nanny Ogg is far more powerful than Granny Weathewax, allthough the latter is more powerful on a magical scale. In the books, the witchcraft is about dealing with abnormal situations, so that's why GRanny Weatherwax is the leader of the trio.
But that's not what it's about. I can easily envision a night with Nanny Ogg in one (or more) pubs, swapping dirty jokes and generally having fun. I'd be hard pressed to even enjoy a cup of tea in the company of Granny Weatherwax. Even if it was Monkey King of Jasmin brewed to perfection, from china cups.

I think that Nanny is part of the real key to the witches' success (I think that's why I enjoy those books, but the Tiffany Aching ones slightly less so) but do you really think she's more powerful than Granny?

She's definitely more congenial than Granny Weatherwax, but I don't think that people-pleasing skills equate to the same thing as headology power.

But you raise an interesting point. If Nanny is in fact more powerful, she'd have to be holding back, so that her good friend Esme can come out on top. If so, she's subtly leading in a way that puts the Patrician to shame...

I've always thought that her 'people powers' come from the fact that she's everyone's Mum. I've encountered a few of those people in real life, and they are forces to be reckoned with. But Granny is totally unmoved by external factors, and thus in a better position to move people.

But I could be wrong.

Like I said, on a human level. On a scale of Magic, Granny is way stronger, but where Nanny can mother her way through anything and achieve willing cooperation in sconds, Granny would have to bully her way, and then most likely get fearful, but deep underneath unwilling cooperation.
It's hard to define precisely what I mean.

Hi, hope no one minds if I butt in.

I see where you are coming from Mazur, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Certainly Nanny and Granny approach their Craft in very different ways, and Nanny's is very much grounded in her matriarchal place within her own society in Lancre, and also her gregarious, flirty and drunken nature when she is elsewhere. Granny is very different, but on a Human Level, she has just as much persuasive ability as Granny, it's just different. It's based on respect (and indeed fear) of not only her magical power, but her status as an outsider.

"where Nanny can mother her way through anything and achieve willing cooperation in sconds, Granny would have to bully her way, and then most likely get fearful, but deep underneath unwilling cooperation."

I think that this is true of their natural ways of doing things. Nanny is as you describe her, and certainly it's easy to see Granny being dominating and imperious, but to say that she would *have to* bully her way through is, in my opinion, a mistake. Just as it is a mistake to see Nanny solely as the "Nice One", as she explains in Masquerade.

Granny does not and (I think) would not, allow herself to get as close to people as Nanny does as a matter of course, and her way with people and influence upon them is therefore very different, but I don't think it is any less powerful. Far from it.

@ Sweeper - but away thats what forums are for, just be prepared for someone to say Na ah now and then

@ all

The last DW book I read was Wintersmith I'm actually enjoying the Tiffany books, but this last one in particular as Tiffany is slightly older now and her character is more developed, and her interactions with Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg are more complex and subtle. It is interersting in the book that at one point you can see how the relationship of Granny and Nanny have worked for a long time. There is a couple of moments where Granny backs off and lets Nanny handle things, and a couple of times when it is mentioned that Nanny lets Esme handle things. Which is "more powerful" - neither, I think that each has specialities certainly, but each have the ability to be very crafty and subtle. Granny doesn't use subtle very often in most of her books because unsubtle works faster, but in Wintersmith (and to a lesser extant Masquerade) Granny gets positively Macheavellian sp?

Windle's two cents

The first book I read was probably nightwatch and I just want to say that though those witches get my funnybone I rather prefer Vimes and his diorderly Watch group. 'Nuff said!

Just finished Wintersmith as well. I thought it was a good Tiffany book but not the best "Discworld" book (and this one is sold as a Discworld book differently from the other two for some reason) after heavyweights like Going Postal, Night Watch and Thud. Not sure why; maybe re-reading Wee Free Men and Hat Full of Sky in the week before was too much. I did burn thru it in 2 days having just re-read the other two; probably a bad move and it's not quite the same as them. Maybe she had been a bit too reliant on the Feegles in the first two. Maybe I have to re-read it to suss why. Th witches politics was great and the ending very good.

One of the things that also struck me while I was reading Witches Abroad is that something seems to have dropped off the radar lately. Does anyone even play Cripple Mr. Onion any more? It used to be a regular bit of colour in the books. What happened?

When it comes to who is the more powerful witch, I believe that neither is more powerful than the other. Both Nanny and Granny are linked which is the nature of the witches’ coven. They work together to achieve their goals by using the abilities that each posses in a manner which amplifies their success. Granny’s powers are limited when dealing with people on a social level, while Nanny’s powers are limited when dealing with people on a psychological level. However these two compliment each other so well that they have turned their weaknesses in to advantages. It seems that they know that their coven is what gives them their power, which is why throughout the Witch series they are looking for that perfect third, the maid. They seem to know how important it is to complete the circle, to get the one person who can fill in the blanks so to speak. I have not yet read Wintersmith yet but I wonder if they are looking at Tiffany for their maid. It would seem the logical step to me. **Please don’t tell me either way. I like to be totally in the dark when I read a book, I know they say it’s bad for the eyes, but it’s better for the imagination. **

Imagine how strong they would be if they were a complete coven.

That’s my take, thanks for listening.

TTFN

Witches Abroad ranks as one of my favorite in the witch series, actually. I wasn't fond of Equal Rites (in fact, it's probably my least favorite Discworld novel), but everything fell into place in Wyrd Sisters with the addition of Magrat Garlick. Witches Abroad takes the now established trio (not to mention the reader) out of their element and into parts of the Disc hitherto unknown.

For a while, this book was pretty hard to find in the United States. I'd read all of the other novels in the Discworld series (with the exception of Carpe Jugulum, because it either hadn't been released at that time or was just out in hardcover) before I managed to track down a copy. It was quite a pleasant surprise.